Valentine Art 09, Page 1

2009-01-21 [Tynuka-Rhytishy]: Funny thing is in the old Batman and Robin episodes starring Adam West, the man who played Robin was homosexual. (Of course, no offense to anyone.) I just found it coincidental. lol

2009-01-21 [deeterhi]: Thanks. The Batman/Robin pedaphile/homosexual joke has always been around. I just put it down on paper :)

2009-01-21 [Alexi Ice]: LOL! [deeterhi[ I am so going to be sick! LOL!

2009-01-21 [Jitter]: Awesome deeter x) The look on Batman face and the innocense in Robin's are sooooo cool XD

2009-01-22 [Panophobia]: Haha I love the batman and robin one! Nice one deeterhi!

2009-01-22 [Artsieladie]: [deeterhi], you're entry is great with more than one element, funny, expressive, great artwork (as always)... :)

2009-01-22 [deeterhi]: I must say, this was a great theme :)

2009-01-22 [Jitter]: [Triola]'s is my wallpaper :3

2009-01-22 [Triola]: Aww, I love you *hug* :D

2009-01-22 [Jitter]: Love you too ^^ *huggle*

2009-01-23 [Paul Doyle]: That creepy Batman/Robin pose reminds me of that equally creepy 1990s "Prison Sex" video by Tool when that large black figure carresses and fondles the little white thing with the spinning eye.

2009-01-23 [deeterhi]: Oh, wow. [Triola], your entry is so beautiful and sad.

2009-01-23 [Linderel]: I'll tell her you said that, it should make her really happy :D

2009-01-29 [LadyWillow]: I've never entered an official Elftown Contest before. Be gentle.

2009-01-29 [moira hawthorne]: lol [LadyWillow] cute! you need to work on it more tho... looks like a sketch... so either shad it more as a drawing or colour it...

2009-01-29 [LadyWillow]: I don't have a program that will let me do that, and I'm not sure where the original is. Should I take it down then?

2009-01-29 [moira hawthorne]: you could print this one out again ... colour it and up load it again

2009-01-29 [moira hawthorne]: or there are free colourin programs

2009-01-29 [LadyWillow]: lol if I had a printer and scanner I would. hang on and I'll change my entry.

2009-01-30 [Artsy]: Who are they? o.O

2009-01-30 [moira hawthorne]: I really liked your first one better [LadyWillow]...

2009-01-30 [LadyWillow]: Yeah me to Moira, but like you said, too sketchy. That's ok. Their names are Pliedes and Angelique [Artsy]. The blonde is Pliedes.

2009-01-30 [moira hawthorne]: hopefully you will get the dragon princess one painted in time...

2009-01-30 [LadyWillow]: Highly doubtful. I've never colored a piece on the computer with anything higher than paint, and my brain is in the process of exploding as I type. It's already got 8 layers, and I intend to have every color of shading in her hair and dress and the knight's armor and the dragons scales, and the pillows and the gold on different layers...it will take forever. But I'm really excited about it!

2009-01-30 [Artsy]: Who are Pliedes and Angelique? *still confused*

2009-01-30 [moira hawthorne]: well thats goood.... better you have fun and make a piece for yourself... than rush just to get it into a contest...

2009-01-31 [LadyWillow]: Actually, I just finished it, and I'm quite pleased with how it turned out. Especially for my first real computer coloring job! Guess I'll be entering it anyway! Yay me!

Pliedes and Angelique are characters I made up. It's a long story and wouldn't make much sense if I tried to explain it. Sorry.

2009-01-31 [moira hawthorne]: very goood... congrats to you

2009-01-31 [LadyWillow]: Yeah...After I went to bed I realized that this particular princess is a blonde. It looks much better in my opinion. I know it bothers people when a person changes their entry a million times, but the deadline hasn't passed yet, so it's ok right? heh.

2009-01-31 [Artsieladie]: You can change your entry as many times as you feel it is necessary to meet your satisfaction of your work, up until the deadline, [LadyWillow]. I like your entries, but the second one just a teensy more. :) Very nice and interesting entries everyone! :D

2009-02-01 [LadyWillow]: Thank you very much. I actually drew the second one in 2003 I think. It's rather old. But I still love it. And it's nice to know that others do too. Very flattering.

2009-02-01 [Artsieladie]: YW! :) Well, old isn't a bad thing. If I look at my older pieces and I still am happy with them, then I feel they are good pieces. It is always nice to hear that others like your art, but at the same time, your art should always be that you are happy with, even if others aren't, I think. ;)

2009-02-01 [Jitter]: Show your process <- Great place to be inspired and see all you need is patience!

2009-02-01 [LadyWillow]: I agree Ladie. That's what's important. Thanks Jitter, I'll check it out.

2009-02-01 [Jitter]: You're welcome :) I feel so proud when I see my progress over the years. It's very encouraging :D

2009-02-01 [LadyWillow]: And very impressive I might add.

2009-02-01 [Jitter]: =)

2009-02-02 [Alexi Ice]: [LadyWillow] - ZOMG! LOL! I LOVE the night in the background that droped his sward! Priceless.

2009-02-02 [LadyWillow]: lol thanks it was my favorite part to draw. not a necessary addition, but the picture doesn't look complete to me without it.

2009-02-02 [moira hawthorne]: ooooh he was totally necessary

2009-02-02 [LadyWillow]: lol yeeeeaaaah.

2009-02-02 [Alexi Ice]: He does make the picture funny ^^ I can just imagine his shock, the fight that followed, you know, it really tells a story.

2009-02-03 [LadyWillow]: There was no fight. The poor guy just sighed, picked up his stuff and left. Didn't go back to the king and queen either! Imagine being the one to tell a king and queen that their daughter is in love with a dragon! Heh. The picture is from a story that I've been writing since I was in eighth grade. This scene isn't in the story anymore, but it still makes me giggle. And I know that this post contradicts one of my previous posts and makes me sound like a liar, but both comments are true.

2009-02-03 [Alexi Ice]: ^^ It is still very charming though! ^^ Poor guy, I feel sorry for him.

2009-02-03 [LadyWillow]: he's a good guy too one of Sayri's childhood friends if I remember correctly. Sweet guy. I feel sorry for him myself!

2009-02-04 [Artsy]: ooooo good entry [blu.nation]!

2009-02-04 [moira hawthorne]: I love the colours!

2009-02-04 [LadyWillow]: it's beautiful. I love paintings.

2009-02-06 [Artsy]: I have OFFICIALLY started on my entry. I hope I finish it in time! The coloring.. hmmmm may not get done at all.... *rushes around* I WILL enter something!!!

2009-02-06 [FamousPanda]: I GOT A TABLET!!! =D -is excited- =]

2009-02-06 [Artsieladie]: Hmm... On the main page, Valentine Art Competition, it states:

Drawings must be well shaded and/or coloured and have some type of background. Sketches will not be accepted.

9.) [LadyWillow] and 12.) [Ms. Steel], your entries, which I adore by the way, are definitely well coloured. The question that might get raised, however, is if they really have what the Council feels is a 'background'. Even if you could add a border or a frame, might be good. I'm not all that happy to point this out, because I like your entries, but I don't want to see either of you get disqualified, either. :,P

2009-02-06 [LadyWillow]: I'm still new at this whole computer coloring thing. If you think I should take down 9 I will. I don't want to bug anyone.

2009-02-06 [Artsieladie]: I'm not criticising the art, because I like the pieces here. But... I see no GIFS here. You have a good point about [*micky*]'s. :P

2009-02-06 [Artsieladie]: No, I don't think you should take it down, but a border or a frame would be better, I think. I'd be willing to add a border or frame for anyone that would want one, if you can't yourself. I have several computer graphic programs, so it would be very easy for me to do and I certainly wouldn't mind. :)

2009-02-06 [*micky*]: O, sorry so mine is not very good either...I must admit I'm terrible at colouring xD But I might try a background then...Or you can take it down if you want^^

2009-02-06 [LadyWillow]: I think it's a cute piece mickey, you should try giving it a background, a fountain or a mountainscape, or whatever you feel fits the couple best. It's lovely, really, don't give up.

2009-02-06 [Ms. Steel]: Can do.

2009-02-06 [moira hawthorne]: a colour would be nice.. maybe a rosey glow

2009-02-06 [Artsieladie]: [*micky*], I don't want you to feel that your entry is bad, because I don't feel that it is, but sometimes the scanning process doesn't do our pieces justice. You might try a better scan and through a graphics' program, perhaps? But I don't know what graphic program you have or have access to. Scanning an image, importing it into a graphic program, can give you the ability to make some adjustments easier this way, sometimes. I can try to see if I can make some adjustments with it, if you'd like, but I can't make any promises. :)

2009-02-07 [Artsy]: aww, that's pretty. Feels a little... distant though.... separate entities...

2009-02-07 [Tynuka-Rhytishy]: Thank you. =] Is it good that it's distant? I kinda figured it was part of the topic. <<

2009-02-07 [Artsy]: It is pretty, and I do like it. I just feel like it's lacking a weight to it.. like they are just posed, but not really interacting...

2009-02-07 [Artsieladie]: Neat idea, [Tynuka-Rhytishy]! :D I see your point [Artsy], but I don't necessarily agree, because on the other hand, how interacting can nature or much of anything else be with fire, without disintegrating completely? ;) Just a thought...

2009-02-07 [Artsy]: The same way that you see a tree burning, for a long time before it turns to ash. o.o' That's just how it seems to me... I'm only pointing it out cuz I do it a lot too. My entry is taking forever to do, just to think out the interaction...

2009-02-07 [Artsieladie]: Oh, I'm ok with your view. I just wanted to throw out a counter view. ;) I look forward to seeing your entry, too. :)

2009-02-07 [Tynuka-Rhytishy]: I just never had any classes =/ So, I'm not that great with the whole emotion/posing/interaction thing. But, I did try to make it purposely in this picture because of what entities they are. They are suppose to be forbidden, how could they be close without destroying one another?

I do need practice though. xD I'm going to college for that sort of thing. So within the next year, I should be better. =[

2009-02-07 [Artsieladie]: I think you're doing great, [Tynuka-Rhytishy]! :D

2009-02-07 [Jitter]: I really like your Tynuka

2009-02-07 [Tynuka-Rhytishy]: Thanks guys =]

2009-02-08 [Artsy]: I'm going to color it! I am! I just wanted to get that up there! I'm gonna color it, somehow.. I will.

2009-02-08 [LadyWillow]: Ok, is it just me or is 14 just...CREEEEPY!!! LOL

2009-02-08 [moira hawthorne]: good one Living!

2009-02-08 [Artsy]: Thanks ^^'' Sadly, quite a bit of the confession booth got cut off. I think I'm going to be forced to color the original and scan that, or scan a new one, print, color THAT one, then scan again.. not sure yet. But it WILL be done so-help-me! *shakes determined fist*

2009-02-08 [Artsieladie]: I like that determination, [Artsy]! :)

Numbers 8, 9, and 12 are all "OK'd" entries. :D

2009-02-08 [Artsy]: There is now a photo on my house of the whole picture. I found a place to get the whole thing scanned, and I'll have to scan, print, color the printed version, then scan it again... Ugh, this involves getting up early Monday... Man...

It's fine. The art is worth it!

2009-02-08 [Artsieladie]: Oh, what we artists don't go through! ;)

2009-02-08 [LadyWillow]: Sacrifice for your art. I do it every day.

2009-02-08 [Artsieladie]: Me, too. ;)

2009-02-08 [Artsieladie]: I'm not quite understanding Moira, what the 'forbidden' factor is in your entry. I'm not criticising, just asking. :P

2009-02-08 [Tynuka-Rhytishy]: It's forbidden because of the forms of the two subjects in the piece. It's one of those look outside of the box, things. My dad's in love with his guitars. Sometimes I think he loves them more than he loves his own kids. ;-;

2009-02-08 [moira hawthorne]: yes... to Aodh Méadhbh Aoibh IS a woman! her spirit/soul is a real woman he was in love with... and now her form IS the guitar... so he has her... they are one and the same always together... but unlike having a flesh and blood woman to make love to... he makes love to her by making music with her...

there are several... if not more references in myth and modern fantasy to persons... woman being made into instruments... harps... and Méadhbh Aoibh was originally a harp...

Méadhbh Aoibh is embodied in the guitar... having her outside of the instrument would make her less significant... as if she didnt exist as the guitar... Aodh is already cradling her in his arms...

2009-02-08 [moira hawthorne]: sorry thats so long... but when friends get me to think out the reasoning behind what aodh does I tend to ramble on...

2009-02-09 [moira hawthorne]: interestin pairing [arthemis_]

2009-02-10 [jaraden]: hmmmmmmmmm.. i think i've got a couple of favorites.. not sure whom i'd choose though... ARGHHHH!!!

2009-02-10 [moira hawthorne]: got a few I love... 3 are in my serious 'who to vote for' quandary

2009-02-10 [Triola]: People have really stepped up for this competition, it'll be a hard choice all around, I'd say! :)

2009-02-10 [Flisky]: Too many good pictures...but only one vote...*falls over*

2009-02-10 [Rochala]: Sorry to mention this so little before the deadline but I don't think the latest two entries would fit the theme without the explanation.

2009-02-10 [moira hawthorne]: that may well be your opinion... but they both do meet the rules and fit the theme and are illustrations... which are images of storys

2009-02-10 [Artsy]: I totally get it. Maybe that's just because I know people who love their instruments though...

2009-02-10 [Artsie_ladie]: i'm wondering teh same thing rochala, especialy #14. i read teh comment sort of explianing, but i'm not convinced. i can see improbabel, but not forbidden. teh last 1 i can't be sure with yet.

2009-02-10 [Artsy]: Is it so hard to spell 'the' correctly? Same letter, same letters....

2009-02-10 [Artsieladie]: I love my instruments, too, and if I were to have some sort of 'love' thing going on with them, to me, this would be weird, improbable, strange, but not forbidden. The definition of forbidden, (which I posted above) is: "Not allowed; prohibited." :P

2009-02-10 [moira hawthorne]: are your instruments living tho?

but if you and your instruments can do the deed together! bang it on! hump! make love! and you dont consider that forbidden by at least the laws of physics form and function... than you better remove a whole lot of the others... b/c they could actually be lovers and have sex...

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: if you are gonna start eliminating artist's interpretation of the theme forbidden... than only 3 up so far would be allowed... (4, 10 and 12) b/c sex with a minor and bestiality are not allowed, and are prohibited by law... everything else is interpretative.

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: 2 and 3 are interspecies matings are therefore weird, improbable, strange, but not forbidden by any law...

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: It is prohibited by law or else those species would be mating with eachother. It's in their nature to only mate with their own species.

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: ahhhhhh but there are people here who are saying people and a guitar can mate... so I just trying to be fair... a snake and mouse COULD mate... without breaking any rules/laws that make it forbidden... they just wouldnt have offspring... but hey that never stopped thousands of writers from making up the most improbable species of myth and fiction

2009-02-11 [Artsy]: I see nothing wrong with any of the entries. Except maybe the last one. Which I don't quite get... But that doesn't matter. I believe Moira's is ok, because the guitar is an actual person, just a different form, sort of like a different species. And for a man (I know, Aodh is a faery) to marry another species below himself? That IS illegal. Snakes and mice, and elephants and mice, is weird, but not illegal. After all, they are not subject to our laws. Aodh, however, being humanoid, is subject to our laws, therefore making his love of his guitar, 'not allowed, prohibited'.

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: Well, WE certainly are capable of having them mate for whatever strange experiments but in nature (without us messing around with their animal instincts) they would NEVER mate. Hence, it being prohibited. Animals are meant to mate within their species. So a mouse mating with either a elephant or snake is simply a no no within mating laws for animals.

2009-02-11 [Artsy]: There is no law! It's biological, they just aren't attracted to other species! It isn't prohibited though! Good grief, there are plenty of cases of like.. dog humping cats, or something like that. It's not prohibited, just strange. Only earth-bound (aka, not demons, gods, etc) humanoids are subject to laws because they were created by those same people. Sure, yeah, angels and demons could be counted on religious... laws, I guess, so yeah, maybe those. But not the gods, and not the animals.

2009-02-11 [Artsieladie]: But the goal here is not "impossible". The goal is "forbidden". We already discussed this much earlier in the comments. A snake and a mouse would be a 'forbidden' love, because snakes eat mice.

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: As for a weirdness factor, they all could be placed under the category. It doesn't matter what sort of species it is, [deeterhi]'s is a prime example. Perhaps that is just part of the definition of forbidden love. Something out of the norm, weird and not at standards of what people would normally expect.

2009-02-11 [Artsy]: "Forbidden - Definition:
- (adjective) Not allowed; prohibited."

Prohibit - To forbid by authority

authority - the power to determine, adjudicate, or otherwise settle issues or disputes; jurisdiction; the right to control, command, or determine

Only humans have authority, and therefore, to our knowledge, only humans could have 'forbidden' things, since we are the only ones who can 'forbid' things. Of course, by association, we could include other creatures that inhabit the earth, in fantasy of course, that possess human level intelligence..

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: [JajaJulie] if you go by the definition of forbidden love as ANYthing out of the norm, weird and not at standards of what people would normally expect.
THAN mine and all of these would be allowed! but when people start picking on one or two artist's interpretation of forbidden than to be fair ALL the entries which are not by law forbiben should be removed...

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: I know...I wasn't saying yours wasn't...I was just stating why mine would be considered forbidden love since it was brought to question.

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: but by law its not forbidden... snakes could hump mice... or viceaversa... and I have known snakes and mice to coexist as 'friends' 'roomates' whatever... maybe they were in love! so im not saying yours or anyone else's should be removed... but to be fair

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: Well, everyones entries are still there and I'm sure if they really felt is shouldn't be there it would be gone by now. :P

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: ooooh im pretty sure you have nothing to worry about!

2009-02-11 [Ms. Steel]: Ha ha, I never saw that my piece was okayed. So, I changed it anyway. Just call me observant.

2009-02-11 [LynnAnneBrown]: It saddens me to see artists pick each other apart over differences in interpretation. I have always believed that art, and particularily the art of science fiction and fantasy, purpose was to expand and explore the outer regions of the possible and to scrape away at the definition of the impossible. If we were to stick to a strict interpretation of the the word "forbidden" then we could all find arguements for and against each of these entries. What matters is what the artist feels and imagines when an abstract and maleable word like forbidden is given to them to consider. What is forbidden can depend greatly on time, place and point of view.
Copernicus was forbidden to see the solar system as it was, or at least to report it to others. People of different faiths have been forbidden to marry. Folks of the same gender are still forbidden to do in many places. The list could go on forever. It is to the credit of the Artist and forward thinkers of the world that these conditions have and are changing. We shape how people see themselves and others. So when I see one artist trying to forbid another's interpretation because they do not get it, or because it does not fit a narrow and limiting definition, then I grieve for the future of the Arts as a forerunner in the evolution of human compassion and intellegence. If we as members of ElfTown were to forbid the artist to interpret the subject matter as their muse inspires them or to deprive others of being able to view and consider those works for themsleves then we would be little better that the corrupted church that forbade the publication of the work of Copernicous and this is not a light that I would like to see our little town remembered in.

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: Yeah I can surely feel the love within this valentines day art competition. :P

2009-02-11 [Linderel]: Hey, didn't you know? It's forbidden to love this year!
*is shot for bad joke*

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: XD

2009-02-11 [FamousPanda]: I think every piece that is here is wonderful, everyone has their own interpretation of "forbidden love" and like [LynnAnneBrown] was saying it is what the artist thinks it is, I can see how every picture here is forbidden and I think the arguing should cease and everyone should get along, just saying. It's a Valentine's Day competition everyone, show the love. <3

2009-02-11 [Artsy]: I was going on the one that [Artsieladie] gave us. The one used for this contest. I agree with you guys, but it isn't really up to us to say how the contest is run. The rules are stated, and we were supposed to follow them. It's why I took down my entry. I knew it didn't follow the rules, nor could I fix it by the deadline, so I just took it down.

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: and yours was awesome! a triple whammy... priest minor and boy!

2009-02-11 [Artsy]: I couldn't believe no one thought of it before me. ^^'' And I even thought 'maybe it's too much' but when I asked for ideas, and you told me that, and some other people, I was like 'huh, I guess people want to see it...' so.. yeah... I like it. But it's not a good scan and it's not colored or shaded ^^''

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: Wow, wish I could have seen that XD

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: its on her house...

2009-02-11 [JajaJulie]: XD that reminds me of the beginning scenes of Tropic Thunder

2009-02-11 [Paul Doyle]: *blinks* I am the only one who thinks these are some of the more bizarre comments to ever appear on an official Elftown contest wiki? Sheesh, people. Read the rules, understand them as they are (and not what you think they should be). . . and lighten up and have some fun. To make a real push for contest changes, go to that underutilized, public "Contests" forum. Be coherent and state your case and stay cool . . . and who knows? Maybe future contests will have different rules.

2009-02-11 [Paul Doyle]: And in an effort to lighten the mood up here somewhat . . . here's something [Lerune] stumbled upon recently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQALeeHWJyE

2009-02-11 [Morphea]: OMG *rolls over from laughing*

2009-02-11 [TheRogue]: aww that batman and robin one is just WRONG! LOL

2009-02-11 [moira hawthorne]: FUCK ALL YOU! WHY DONT YOU JUST BANN ME FROM EVER ENTERING ANY OFFICIAL ET CONTEST OR DO THIS TO EVERY SINGLE ENTRY IN THE CONTEST! HOW FUCKING INSULTING! THANKS ALOT YOU PRICKS!
sorry to the 3 who voted for me ... you arent 'you all'

2009-02-11 [LynnAnneBrown]: Well this is an upsetting development. To begin with I will declare that I am a friend of moira hawthorne, and that I supported her concept and interpretation from the first time she brought it to me for consideration. For those of you who think that my friendship with moira, has brought a bias to my opinion, I will acknowledge that friendship and familiarity has helped me gain an understanding as to the way the muse speaks to her. Having said that I support her submission as I do all the other entrants. As I said before if you give an artist a subject based on such abstract and maliable words as forbidden and love then you have to expect a very wide and varied interpretation and just because we don't get or agree with the interpretation does not mean it's wrong. That having been said, the next act in this room turn my sorrow into anger. Whoever chose to turn the jurying of entries over to a public poll has insulted the intellegence of us all and brought us into the realm of playground cruelty. To be fair, if you felt that the members should be polled as to whether entries had met the criterion or not then all entries should have been included in this poll. The reason for this is that although I think that each entry shows a wonderful response to the theme of forbidden love if my purpose were to go on the attack rather than provide support for the artists here, I could use my intellect to argue that none of the entries fit the criteria if judged by the narrowest definitions of the words. But that is not my purpose. My purpose here in ElfTown is to be a member of a community that encourages and supports artistic and creative diversity and frankly right now I am extremely disappointed.

2009-02-11 [Super Hungry]: Lady, you need to grow up your almost 50 and your crying because they won't put one of your pictures up. WAH

2009-02-11 [Morphea]: *raising eyebrows* what is the reason for this poll? If the contest moderators does not feel that her piece fits the theme they can just not pick it for the mainstreet poll.Can`t they? Or are the mods so unsure that they want to get a feel from the members and thus confirming/unconfirming their own oppinions?
I personally did not feel that her work was in accordance, as I interpreted the theme.(although I think it is a good piece of art) But I am sure many will/can say the same about my own entry. You should also now that [moira hawthorne] and I are NOT friends....but this I feel is hanging a member out to dry.
*big question mark in my forehead* so I ask again...why this poll?

2009-02-11 [Paul Doyle]: That public "Contest forum" was created for this very kind of dispute ;-)

2009-02-11 [Rebulous]: [Sigh] I am not a particularly smart person, nor am I very artistic or well-spoken. I'm even not very nice sometimes. But I do recognise an injustice when I see it. Most everyone here should. And yet, there is this poll which is serving to disprove my assertion. A poll which singles out one piece of art (one that I thought was particularly good). Yep, not very fair at all. But since I don't run the show here, all I can do is voice my distaste.

2009-02-11 [Artsieladie]: The reason for this poll was to let the Elftowners decide whether Moira's entry fits the theme, since there was discussion in regards to her entry and whether it fit the theme or not. It was decided this was the fairest way, because the Council usually makes these decisions and then there has been a feeling that the Council is biased. This time, however, the Council cannot be accused as being biased, because the decision was left up to the Elftown members.

I can see that apparently the Council can't win even when we choose to let the community speak instead of The Council.

2009-02-11 [Rebulous]: So, a few individuals who may or may not have an axe to grind with Moira have the power to bring into effect a poll that the council can hide behind. Fine. I was hoping against hope that the "artists" in ET would step forward and overwhelmingly vote their support for Moira. But since most here *aren't* artists, well, we see the results. Oh, and *I* don't think *any* of the pieces on display fit the definition. But I must have missed their polls. Anyother wiki, perchance?

2009-02-12 [LynnAnneBrown]: I still fail to understand why if moira's art fails to meet the criteria why then others in this competition are. Therefore to poll her piece without at least polling the other pieces that have come up for question is unfair. If I remember correctly several people commented that if "Forbidden" was strictly interpreted then only one to three of the pieces would qualify. So in the interest of fairness, all or none of the pieces should have been polled

2009-02-12 [Artsy]: I agree with [LynnAnneBrown]. Only my entry (which I took down out of respect for the rule to either color or shade it) and [deeterhi]'s entries actually fit the theme. And [moira hawthorne]'s, with the knowledge that the guitar is a person (inter species). Oh, and #10 by [LadyWillow] fits too (inter species, again) and [Ms. Steel]'s, for the same. ... Wow, mine was the only one I approve of that wasn't inter-species....

2009-02-12 [JajaJulie]: This wiki makes me wish valentines day never existed.

2009-02-12 [moira hawthorne]: nice to see a council member is again breaking the rules to their own advantage!

2009-02-12 [Artsieladie]: What Council member would that be that's breaking the rules?

2009-02-12 [JajaJulie]: Part of being a artist is not everyone is going to get what you're trying to interpret in your artwork. So you tell the person and if they still don't get it then you just let it be. I myself don't think the poll was exactly the right route to go but it seems everyone was 50/50 on it. Half believed it should stay and the other half believed it should go. It saddens me that it would come to this extent. I think we should all just calm down a bit. These art competitions are supposed to be for fun afterall and not a fight to the death. I mean, is it really worth getting this worked up about?

2009-02-12 [moira hawthorne]: you.

you are breaking the rule of the dead line... entering a piece a day late...

AND breaking your own definition of forbidden!

just like you did for other council members!

2009-02-12 [moira hawthorne]: fine for you to say... your piece was allowed b/c you are a council member...

2009-02-12 [moira hawthorne]: if the contest are for fun... than why does my piece get picked on for this kind of abuse? if its for fun than any interpretation of the word forbidden should be allowed

2009-02-12 [JajaJulie]: I agree with you. Perhaps this subject wasn't the best to pick since as it is evident, a lot of people have different interpretations of the meaning of forbidden.

2009-02-12 [Artsy]: Perhaps 'unusual' would have been better? That would have been anything but human heterosexual couples..

2009-02-12 [JajaJulie]: Yeah, 'unusual love' or 'rare love' or something would have been best I think

2009-02-12 [Artsieladie]: I am breaking the rules of the deadline? That's bull and you know it. There are many people here that can vouch that I will hold a contest open to allow an entry and you know this to be fact yourself! It just so happens that I was all caught up in the trying to give YOU the fairest solution possible and how many times have I stood up for you and gone to bat for you and there are people here that can verify this, too. The trouble is, is that you aren't telling the WHOLE truth. You're leaving significant parts out so people can't make a FULL assessment, an infomed decision of the situation. They are only getting your side.

As far as mine breaking the 'forbidden theme'? Fine, I'll be glad to make a poll with mine, too. If people want it in, so be it. If they don't, so be it! Either way I will be fine with their decision, because contests are supposed to be FUN! How many times have you ruined everyone's else's fun? How many? If you thought anything of Elftown, you would stop trying to ruin it for eveyone else here, time and time and time again. You accuse the Council of ruining this site. Well, maybe you oughta' take a good look at yourself and see what you are doing to it. It's about time people are clued in.

2009-02-12 [moira hawthorne]: the subject 'forbidden love' is fine! the persecution of one artist's interpretation of it is not!

I firmly believe that we of ET should be trying to expand the boundrys of creativity and interpration as artist... not limiting and trying to find reason why a piece of art NOT be included in a contest!

we should be supporting each other not trying to tear each other down.

2009-02-12 [Linderel]: Oh please. <_<
#s 1, 4-6 and 12 fit the theme perfectly well. About the rest I'm ambiguous. As for Artsie's submission being late - it isn't. The deadline of official Elftown contest is always the end of the day marked down, midnight Elftown time. I agree that putting simply one entry in a public poll on the page, no matter whose it is, was a bad idea, but what's done is done.

And before you ask, I see 'forbidden love' as something that is prohibited by the surrounding society.

2009-02-12 [moira hawthorne]: take that fuckin insulting poll down... I removed my art from the contest... this isnt fun! why do i spoil everyone else's fun! ha!!! I just want to enter the contest like everyone else1 I struggle with my muses as much as anyone else! I read the rules and come up with a piece of art that fit them... why as soon as i enter a contest is my piece suddenly judged by people whether it be allowed to enter?

2009-02-12 [Linderel]: And everyone should just bloody well calm down.

2009-02-12 [Alexi Ice]: I am glad I missed this argument, though I must for once agree with Moira. Even if the guitar in her submission was not a huminoid, you are looking at the word FORBIDDEN so concretely. What happened to the word LOVE? Defined as; strong predilection, enthusiasm, or liking for anything: her love of books. Or as; the object or thing so liked: The theater was her great love. According to the dictionary definition there is no such thing as love forbidden, you can love anything and just because society deems it is forbidden it is not defined as such, like in the animal kingdom, animals don't care what other animals you mate with. Humans are the only species who forbid things, honestly, my interpritation would be homosexual (though I have nothing against it myself) and love such as maybe between a vampire , human, demon, angel but as an artist every interpretaition is different. Had I have finished my art it was a cheerleader and a goth, which was my interpritation of the theme, and I belive that if Moira's was of a man and his guitar well, I wouldn't wanna fuck my guitar and I belive that would be highly impossible as far as science goes as well so I think it was fine.

I do not however agree in any way with Moira bashing the council members.

2009-02-12 [Artsy]: Mitsuki, that sounds like a great entry. ^^ Are you going to finish it and put it up on your house?

2009-02-12 [Alexi Ice]: Yeah I intend to. I LOVED yours by the way! I want to see the end result, is it in your house?

2009-02-12 [Artsy]: I haven't had time to color it just yet. I plan to get the full one up very soon though. The photo of the full shot and the scan of part of it (my roomie's scanner just didn't get it all) are both up on my house though. ^^ I'm eager to see yours.

2009-02-12 [Lord Dog]: No seriously? there are pre competition polls? Aren't we taking these Official Elftown Competitions a little too seriously? What's next start a competition for christmas tomorrow and maybe we can get through the semi finals and finals before the christmas season.

2009-02-12 [JajaJulie]: XD

2009-02-12 [Alexi Ice]: Lol.

2009-02-12 [True, plain and simple]: [Alexi Ice] - As a reply to your earlier comment, in this case the theme was established with a certain interpretation when the contest was open, and that wasn't properly communicated in its written form. So, based on that interpretation someone brought up the validity of a few entries.

In [moira hawthorne]'s case, she explained the story behind her entry; unfortunately, if the piece requires that kind of explanation, it's hard to allow just the piece to be judged by itself. However, given that the intended interpretation of the theme might have been too narrow, the poll was established so that everyone who was participating/watching could decide whether the intended interpretation was too narrow, since it seemed more fair to see how everyone else thought of the theme instead of just the people who came up with it.

Unfortunately this had the side-effect of singling out [moira hawthorne], and I can understand why she's upset about that. On the flip side, it seemed like the only way that didn't make it seem as though the Council was being intolerant of her entry, since it put the decision in the hands of everyone involved.

Clearly the execution of all of this didn't produce the intended results though, and I wish that wasn't the case.

2009-02-12 [Morphea]: If the council members were in a tie about my piece ( wether it fits the theme or not) I would not mind them making a public poll to get a feel of the publics oppinion and thus helping them reach a desicion.
I do not see anything unfair about that.
So after reading [Artsieladie]`s explanation I understand the reasons for such a poll.

And I must say I am shocked and appaled of how [moira hawthorne] is reacting...I did not think it possible that a grown woman could lash out so much abuse and take herself to such low levels.

2009-02-12 [Lord Dog]: I think you are missing the cummalitive aspect of having the poll, [True, plain and simple] and [Morphea]. You admit the poll unfortunately singles out Moira, but the big picture would seem like her work gets a harder scrutiny when and if she decides to enter a contest. I don't follow all the contests, nor do I have the time. Also I only see what is brought to my attention, but it seems like this might be the case. Whether or not the actions of whoever runs the contest are justified or not, reviewing a history like that would be suspicious. Whether or not this is the case , such actions have unintentional fallout, and in this case you get a lot of bystanders deciding to not enter the contests and feeling jaded towards the "Community propaganda" Elftown tries to promote. Which hurts Elftown more because artists leave or reduce their presence leaving only the troublemakers and MySpacers... Just my opinion your mileage may vary . Not Valid in Las Vegas  

2009-02-12 [Hedda]: [moira hawthorne]: The rules about theme are here for the ones competing and following the contest. So if it's unclear, I decided to ask you instead of letting have some sort of judges rule.

I'll remove the poll now as it's not needed anymore.

2009-02-12 [True, plain and simple]: [moira hawthorne] feels that she gets picked on because there's always issues with her entries. However, the reason there are always issues with her entries because she does things that are in the grey areas of the contest boundaries. The other people who choose to enter simply typically don't do that.

In the same way that the theme should be clear enough that everyone can understand it, so should the entries be clear enough that they don't need explanation on how they fit that theme or abide by the rules. Unfortunately [moira hawthorne]'s pieces often do, and she feels that she's being treated unfairly because of that.

In this case, to give her the fairest treatment possible given the lack of theme clarity, the poll was established to give people a chance to tell the Council that they were wrong in saying that her entry fell into one of those grey areas. However, she felt like that was an attack on her, just as she would have had her entry been disqualified.

Unless you expect that we should just ignore when people question the validity of entries, there's really nothing else that can be done about it from our end. She can always ask questions to make sure that everyone is on the same track though, and if she (or anyone else) isn't being told until the last minute (provided that her entry has been up for a reasonable amount of time) that something is wrong, that's firstly something that needs to be changed, and secondly not bias, just inefficient contest management.

No one is out to get contest participants, but it becomes increasingly harder to help them reach a positive outcome if they go into the discussion believing that they're the target of some conspiracy. If the majority of people really feel that a bad decision was made, they should express themselves. However, we normally only get one or two people that agree with the person whose submission was challenged, and that's more friendly support than general consensus.

2009-02-12 [Hedda]: For you who just step in now and wonder what this was about, I created vta09p.

2009-02-12 [Morphea]: I do see your point [Lord Dog] and I agree with it in general. However, when the council is in a tie and are`nt able to reach an desicion about an entry, I feel it is a necessesary evil to have a poll. As long as the council starts to do this with every entry they cannot agree upon, I don`t think that ppl will feel that they are under a harder scrutiny because of that. But why not make a poll about this kinda of poll. Do the members wish that the council alone shall make the decisions of who/what fits the theme or shall they be able to put it out to the public to see what they feel?
When it comes to the history of moira it is my understanding, and I have witnessed my self, that if her work has not reached mainstreet poll or critiqued by the council, she has screamed injustice and called the council biased and made a really big quarrel. Wheter or not she is right about that I don`t know. But I think that in this case the council felt the need to try and show her that that is not what they are.
Unfortunatly it backfired.

2009-02-12 [Jitter]: It always backfires.

2009-02-12 [Morphea]: Yes it seems like it does :(

2009-02-12 [Lord Dog]: Granted, I am not a council member , but it would seem to me that a split vote by the council members would be like a hung jury. Leaving the piece eligible...Just my thoughts.yada yada mileage..etc etc void in Las Vegas..etc ad nauseum

2009-02-12 [Artsy]: *raises sheepish hand* Ummm [Artsieladie]? I don't understand your entry...

Or [arthemis_]'s without the words...

2009-02-12 [Hedda]: [Artsy]: Elftown tend to have bugs, but I wipe them out as soon as I see them... Bugs are highly forbidden here.

2009-02-12 [Lord Dog]: Make sense with the explanation...

2009-02-12 [Artsy]: I just kinda saw it as Elftown had cancer, and you gave it radiation... It didn't seem Elftown 'loved' bugs to me. Not, that is to say, love HAS to be requited.. Maybe bugs just love Elftown.. Of course, I'm not on the working side of things. ^^'' In your position, I'm sure it made more sense. Thanks for explaining.

2009-02-12 [arthemis_]: I only just stepped in, because I have been busy lately. I only know read the comments posted on my entry. Just to clarify, I believe that Justice and Revenge often go hand to hand, but that they shouldn't (and thus prohibited/forbidden, whatever). So you could tell it's a 'forbidden love'. Futhermore to fit the theme even better I added the hearty-background, personified the words and let their hair entangle, as Justice and Revenge often tangles together in one big mess.

Anyway, I didn't think I would need to explain more about my piece. Art is ALL about interpretation. With my piece you can see my interpretation. The theme is Forbidden Love, you know that. Then you see that the title is: Justice and Revenge. And then you can think: Why should Justice and Revenge be forbidden to 'tangle'? And then you can agree with me, that they shouldn't, or you can think: why shouldn't they?

I do think the whole poll thing can be justified, but to 'ease the shock', I think somebody should have communicated to Moira the reason why the poll would be put up. Like: Because the judges and you don't have a very good relationship, we have decided to make it objective and put up this poll. Then we have a more fair idea about what the community thinks. That would be more ehmm professional then just putting up the poll. If you did communicate it to moira first, then just ignore the above words :)

I still think my idea is good. But as I couldn't get it 'on paper' exactly the way I wanted, I'm not that satisfied with my entry. I do not expect it to come into a poll, least of all because it doesn't exactly fit the more common interpretation of 'forbidden love'.

Mainly I don't think you cannot 'ban' entries because they don't 'exactly' fit the theme. I did like Moira's, I thought it fitted the theme after reading the description. Even without it a viewer shouldn't just dismiss it like: guitar verses person... ehmm... a: not possible, b: what about love? People should wonder like: what is this guitar to him? Is he addicted to playing the guitar? Is he like dismissing everybody else around him for the love of his guitar? Is that forbidden? Don't say that it doesn't fit the theme, because your interpretation is that it isn't 'forbidden'. 

I would like to remember people about the story of why Apollo is wearing those particular leaves around his head. He and Eros had a dispute about who was the better shooter. Eros took revenge to make him fall in love with a nymph Diana. He shot another arrow at Diana which made her detest the god. She ran away from him, while his love drove him almost crazy. Then she begged the gods to turn her into a tree. The Gods approved, and Apollo was left hugging the tree. If somebody would paint a man hugging a tree, would that be forbidden love? If somebody titled it: Apollo's demise, would that be forbidden love?

Anyways, I'm hoping the relationship between Moira and the judges improves, because I think she is a good artist. And thank you judges for all the judging, I appreciate your work. And Moira (if you still read this), it's not very professional of you to curse at the judges, there are more polite ways to deal with these issues.

2009-02-12 [Alexi Ice]: [True, plain and simple] - I know ^^ I just didn't get to vote so I wanted to put in my two cents that I would have voted yes!

2009-02-13 [Artsy]: [arthemis_], I meant without the words in your entry (not the title, i mean actually in the picture) and the explanation below it (much like how moira had explained her own entry) then I would not understand it...

2009-02-13 [TheRogue]: (In reference to grey areas and picking on) My thought on the subject is that if people do not agree with the judging, instead of bashing the judges, offer to be a judge in an upcoming contest. It is not for the entrants to decide what is and isn't in the gray area. I think that if you have to write a paragraph and a backstory for your entry of something simple like 'forbidden love' then you are not doing it right. if Moira's love entry had him playing guitar for his lover, it would be fine. All she had was a paragraph justifying and explaining her entry, because she knew it was really not following rules. The entry needs to be to the point straight up with no need for explaination, clear and follow the rules. Nobody's entry should be banned unless they are breaking the rules, if it's a 'grey' area, then fine.. they will just keep on losing until they figure it out.

2009-02-13 [TheRogue]: If you are going to enter, and try to play the 'art is subjective' card, remember this kiddies. I do this for a living. You follow the rules or you don't get the payout. Sure you can artsy fart around all you want, but when there are parameters and guidelines set before you, you abide by them or you don't get your money, and you have to go back and redo it. Part of the judging process is 'how well did you follow the guidelines?' if you want to play in the gray areas, then you are going to lose. Period.

If you titled your entry 'apollo's demise' then YES it would make sense, because it is in reference to a real story, real legend, etc. that someone could research if they were that interested.

However.

If you had to write two paragraphs explaining your personal vision just so the judges could know what they are looking at, then you are doing it wrong. The less you need to explain, the better your entry will be. Justice and revenge are hand in hand to me.. not opposites.. there is a fine line between them and they would never seem like forbidden lovers to me.. if you were going to convince me of that, then you would need to visually make me understand. A pair of heads just isn't going to do it. Get what I'm saying?

2009-02-13 [TheRogue]: As far as Artsie Lady's entry.. you would probably have to be in ET for a long time, and be on or have access to the 'technical' side of ET to understand that reference, I think.. I got it first out, but I've been here almost 8 years now.. LOL

2009-02-13 [TheRogue]: Forbidden This was a combined effort by myself and [Lerune] who provided the muse for the art. She asked me to consider entering it, but I just noticed the contest was closed, so I dropped the ball on this one..
*UPDATE*
Not to mention My artwork for this contest doesn't fit the criteria, and so I would not enter it, because it is a sketch type drawing with no background, etc.. I would choose not to enter it because I know it doesn't fit, not try to pass it off anyway and hope nobody says anything.

If you have to explain it in depth, then you aren't doing it right.. have fun on the next contest kiddies. :)

2009-02-13 [Lord Dog]: If I am reading your words right, [TheRogue], you are saying that if the picture needs a backstory then the image would not be following the rules to the point? Therefore should be banned? Or are you saying the image needing a backstory puts it in the grey area and should be allowed to be in, and left to the voters? 

2009-02-13 [TheRogue]: I'm saying that because art is 'subjective', it is up to the artist to recognize if their ideas are going to be received and understood by anyone else but them. If they are breaking the rules (nudity, stolen, etc) then ban the entry. It is up to the judges to decide in the end, but if the entry is 'gray' and has to be explained in depth, then the judges will probably overlook the entry and it won't win. The artist will continually lose until they can learn to convey what needs to be conveyed in their entry correctly. Don't ban gray entries, let them go through, they have more chance of being overlooked because they are gray than winning because of a 2 paragraph backstory... does that make sense? (this is my opinion, btw). If the judges are ET members in a polling, then it's just going to be what entries are liked best, but I would make sure that the entrants maybe should be asked not to provide a 'backstory' as it shouldn't need one.

2009-02-13 [Lord Dog]: Your opinion falls along the same lines as mine then. Ban it if it is in clear violation of the rules if it is a grey area, let it go. The voters will read the back story if they wish or not and vote for what they see as best representing the theme.. Or whatever

2009-02-13 [TheRogue]: it's a difference between judges and public polling..the rules can reflect the need not to have a backstory, but if it doesn't, then there is no reason not to let it through i suppose..

2009-02-13 [Lord Dog]: See they should have just made another poll, Valentine's Art with Stories, then everyone's happy

2009-02-13 [Hedda]: We've thought about making such a contest actually. A contest with art loosely connected to a theme via a story.

2009-02-13 [TheRogue]: Which I agree.. but would be hard to judge.. the point of most of these contests is that you follow the directions given you.. You don't enter a contest that calls for pigs, and enter a chicken. Plain and simple. You will lose. If you don't care, then enter whatever you like.. just don't expect to win.. If you are actually trying to win, then follow the rules, and expound as much as you can on those rules.. the more you put in that goes with the rules, the better your chances.. if the contest is batman,superman,wonderwoman,and green lantern, don't draw spiderman and then write a paragraph of excuses and justifications. You will lose. This is how sometimes entries that are not as strong artistically can win.. because if only ONE person followed the rules to the letter, then they have a really good chance of winning even if they aren't as strong an artist as others.

2009-02-14 [arthemis_]: Because you think that Justice and Revenge 'coupling' isn't forbidden, mine doesn't fit the theme? Anyways, I wasn't going for the 'win', I'm not good enough for that. I just wanted to express my idea of Revenge and Justice. And my 'background' story isn't a 'background' story, it's more like further informaton. Just like you see a vanGogh in the museum and read at the little plate that he lived in that particular area and had himself only potatoes to eat, and that with the sober lines he wanted to tell about the poverty to the viewer.

I'm not commercial, probably never will be (lack of talent), but you are probably right about winning the contest with something more obvious. Then again, there is something to be said about orginality, isn't there? And everyone should be able to express their originality c.q. opinion. Futhermore I am not entering contests to win, I'm entering them to express my creativity, even when I have no talent whatsoever to actually sell my work.

2009-02-14 [arthemis_]: By the way. If it was only about how well your picture does fit the theme I would have won in other contests before :) (Which I of course did not...)

2009-02-15 [TheRogue]: First off, you wouldn't be entering a contest (competition) if you did not intend to win. Second, If you say you aren't good enough, then you won't be. Talent is not born. Talent is a person's ability to decide what they want to do, do it until they get really good at it and never stop. There is no such thing (to me) as talent. If you practice twirling a baton, you get good at it. Simple. Expressing your creativity is great, but you are asking to be judged, and might want to think that maybe some of these comments are meant to help you do more with what you have, not to insult you. Van Gogh had backstories on his art because he didn't enter it into a competition, so it's not a big deal if there was a back story or not. Your entry to me was in that 'gray' area, and I would wonder why if you weren't trying to win, then why not create and just put it on your house, instead of entering contests you don't want to win, and have that little twinge of disappointment (even if you won't admit it) when you don't win. Putting yourself down is not good for your self esteem. Plenty of people in the world will do that without you doing it to yourself too. Practice, create, do what you do (It's still art no matter what because it's what you created) I'm not slamming your creativity, i'm disagreeing with your entry. Revenge and Justice are on the same line, one side and the other. Step over the line just a little and it becomes Revenge. Neither of them are 'forbidden'. Forbidden is a toaster trying to kiss the water in a bathtub.. something that you can look right at and go "no way".. Your entry just didn't say that to me at all. If you draw Elvis Presley, and have to write his name somewhere to make sure people know it's elvis, then you haven't done it right. Anyway, good luck on other contests at any rate.

2009-02-15 [Akayume]: I know I probably shouldn't say anything, but, well.. Here I go.

Not everyone enters a contest to win. Some do it for fun! I mean, really now, if everyone only entered to win, you'd only get, like, five entries because everyone would see the really good stuff and get scared off.

And speaking of being scared off, all this fighting is putting a lot of negativity on entering contests here.

2009-02-15 [LynnAnneBrown]: I agree with [Akayume], I don't think that everyone who enters a contest or competition is entering with the idea of winning. I think for many it is a way of showing off their own personal best, and saying "This is what I was inspired to do." I know that this is true for myself, for although I can draw reasonably well, am learning to take a decent photo, and consider myself a good poet. I haven't entered any of the competitions here with any hopes or expectations of anything beyond the desire to have my work viewed in a public forum. Certainly if I ever win one of the contests, (well I did win the New Years Day competition, but coming in 1 of 2.......) I'll be delighted that folks liked it enough to vote for it; but if my ego depended on it, It would not last long in the arena of artistic competition. 

2009-02-15 [TheRogue]: I understand both of you guys' points, and I'm not trying to fight with anyone, I'm just trying to express how difficult it is to host a contest, set down rules, have entries, and to have entrants be upset when judges feel their entry is not acceptable, and sometimes even get upset when they don't place. If you are doing your best then that is great, but if it doesn't fit the contest's rules or is in that grey area, then the chances of winning are low. The point of the contests are to put a task in front of you, and the person who can convey that task the best, following all the guidelines usually leave with the win. It is an excercise, and each time a person does not win, hopefully they will walk away with something they've learned that they can apply to the next competition, to help them so that they can win. Anyway the point is made and I'm not going to harp on it.. Like I said before, good luck on future entries, and I look forward to seeing what every one does.

2009-02-15 [Morphea]: Congrats to [deeterhi] A most worthy winner :D *applauds*
I love that entry xD

2009-02-15 [deeterhi]: Thank you [Morphea] :) And also congrats to [Triola] and [Ms. Steel] for their wonderful pieces.

2009-02-15 [Flisky]: Congrats winners! They are all great pieces. :)

2009-02-16 [TheRogue]: Good job [deeterhi]!

2009-02-16 [LynnAnneBrown]: Congratulations [deeterhi] and to [Triola] and [Ms. Steel] as well. Also thank you to all who entered for sharing your visions of "Forbidden Love" 

2009-02-16 [Morphea]: when do we get the badges ? *me likey new badges*

2009-02-19 [arthemis_]: YEAH for [deeterhi], my FAVORITE artist :D (i'm such a fangirl)...

Anyways, I was inspired to draw Revenge and Justice when this theme was layed out. I did not enter to win, but for fun. I think that when Justice is entangled with Revenge, then it's no longer Justice. When you murder somebody because she took away your boyfriend, then it could start of as Justice, became Revenge, and is no longer Justice. I still think that Justice should be objective, while Revenge clouds that objectivity and thus is forbidden... Anyways, enough about this :D

Yeah for [deeterhi]! And the other winners! You inspire me to do better and better :D

2011-03-10 [Mortified Penguin]: Wh-why is Batman molesting Robin?

2011-03-10 [Triola]: Or more importantly, why is Robin molesting Batman's hand?